Wednesday, June 01, 2005

Grewal didn't want to be Inky Mark

I am inclined to think Grewal's motivation for taping conversations with Murphy and Dosanjh is irrelevant.

Maybe Grewal did intend to cross the floor. If that is so, why didn't he? There is every indication that had he abstained in budget vote, that he would be on his way to Cabinet in the government -- because as Dosanjh said: 'Cabinet is easy'. So, if that was his desire, Cabinet within the government -- and Murphy obviously didn't say no -- in fact, he all but said yes -- then why didn't Grewal jump at the chance?

If we look at the situation in context, and remember what happened with Inky Mark, then maybe Grewal's assertions have more credibility.

Grewal says he was approached a few times, and declined. That would give him an opportunity to be prepared that it might happen again -- Murphy or Dosanjh might have said: 'don't say no just yet, we'll let you think on it'.

Given that Inky Mark publicized what he characterized as an approach by the Liberals for his vote, and that Inky Mark was swifty and summarily dismissed by both the Liberals and the media -- Grewal's decision to tape the conversations is more clear.

Had Grewal told anyone that the Libs were courting him, their response would be 'why would we want him -- he's (conveniently) under investigation for graft'. He would have been mocked and ridiculed in the same way Inky Mark was, and he would likely have been disbelieved.

However 'wrong' it might have been for Grewal to tape these conversations, the fact remains that there would have been no way to corroborate his accusations. It would have been the 'he said/he said' that the press is trying to make it now.

Rather than playing the 'they're both just as bad' game, the press and the public should demand more from government representatives like Murphy and Dosanjh. They are in positions of power and influence and their abuse of public trust is clear. Grewal getting it on tape, didn't make it so.



Les Mackenzie said...

"If there is no understanding, use the same kind of language. This is the time to keep the country together, you can’t line up with the Bloc. You should go out on a high principle. Go out on high principle." - Ujjal Dosanjh on handling the media after defecting.

Belinda Stronach is another fine example of Liberal vote buying.

BLUE705 said...

I agree with you Canadianna.
The media is now flooding us with "everybody looks bad" comments with the frequency of "Candians don't want an election". Why isn't Grewal being protected as a whistle-blower?
The media has removed the taping from it's context. Conservatives were complaining about attempts to bribe them and were flat out called liars by Liberals in the media. Grewal could either let it go on or do something. There wasn't enough evidence for the police to investigate without the tapes and you can't tell them you're taping or you become an agent of the police--then you run into real entrapment (sp?)
What is so surprising is how little is being mentioned about Belinda. She is also mentioned on the tape. In fact, as soon as the Liberals found out there was a tape (and would have known what was said) Belinda announced she had a "go-between", Peterson. The tape mentions a "go-between" and suddenly she announces one when they know there is a tape.I think Belinda's case should be investigated by the RCMP as well now that we hear evidence of bribery.

The Hack said...

FYI (because I'm a nit-picker): It's Inky Mark. Singular, not plural. ;-)

Jason Monteith said...

Good post... I never considered the possibility that Grewal may have been motivated by the reaction to Inky Mark's claims.

The Mayor said...

Once again, something that should be bad for the Liberals is turning into another nightmare for the Conservatives.

I've always said the Conservatives need to attack more, be ferocious, but here we go again...defence, defence, defence.

Look around, who's on defence over this? Harper.


Canadi-anna said...

Thank you, Hack. I've edited the title.
And yes, Harper is on the defensive. Had they put the full tapes out there to begin with, he wouldn't be.
Who the heck are his strategists and why don't they call us!!!!

Line, Déya e Lú said...

Oi, eu sou do Brazil, e não sei falar ingles, mas quis conhecer esse blog, your blog é cool, eu não entendi nada do que esta escrito no post, nem sobre o blog, so sei que é do Canadá, talvez voce não entenda nada de portugues também.
Tchau e boa sorte!!!

Canadi-anna said...

Obrigado vindo a meu blog. Minha filha figurou para fora de o que você dito, mas dos nós não fala Portugese assim que nós estamos usando um tradutor em linha dizer: Hello de Canadá!

bob said...

This whole political scene seems like a bad James Bond parody... Inky Mark? Power Corp? Total Energy?
My NDP regular is suspicious of Grewal. Wonder what she'll think about Angry and Dust My Broom's riff on the NDP priorities coming out of the hands of the aboriginals?

bob said...

No comprendo Portuguese. Was that stuff decent?

Canadi-anna said...

I don't speak Portugese either. My daughter translated it (she can understand a few languages) and apparently it said the person doesn't write English, but dropped by and thought my blog was cool. I went to an online translator to say thanks, and hello from Canada.
Kinda neat.

Michael said...

"Who the heck are his strategists and why don't they call us!!!!"

I think the strategy was sound. By delaying the release, the Conservatives gave the liberals as much opportunity as possible to let them deny bribing Grewal and lie about the details of the attempt to coerce. Now that the Conservatives have released the tapes, they have plenty of ammunition. Paul Martin himself has has changed his story many times as more and more revelations of taped conversations come to light.

PR said...

Good post. I tend to think that the who approached who question is pretty moot. It was probably alot more complicated than that, and probably involved simultaneous subtle expressions of interest.

Canadi-anna said...

Michael -- while I agree that it's cool that Paul Martin has been caught in so many lies -- the public is beginning to think 'what else is new?' A certified copy should have been made of the tapes. The translations and transcriptions should have been done by an all-party team. The conservatives would have been able to show they were impartial, and would have avoided claims that they were doctored. Their release would still have taken as long to get it all on paper, and the result in the House might have been the same.
The more I think about it, the more I believe the Libs did target Grewal. He has just enough taint in his history to make it appear unlikely they would approach him, but enough support in his own community that it wouldn't affect his re-election.

JL said...

Inky Mark..right.. Somehow I had already forgotten about his claims of Liberal solicitation.

I too have noticed that Harper is on the defensive in this issue..and he's the only one involved in this that didn't know what was going on!? Why is the media as mad at Harper as Wheeler-Dealer Paul Martin?

What manner of snakeoil have these Liberals found? The magic of Teflon Don Chretien has somehow been passed on to his lessor successor.

Raging Ranter said...

It's funny how the Liberals just "change the channel" and the media just follows along. Now that the transcripts are completed, the Libs are demanding that the originals be released. Duh - the originals are in Punjabi! That's why they had to be translated to begin with. The Liberals, of course, would love to do their own translation, and I'm sure it would come out sounding quite a bit different. I've got a sample of the likely Liberal translation on if anyone's interested.

'Peg City Kid said...

First off, Yeah, I heard what was released of the tape. They don't corroborate his story. I actually hoped they did, because now he looks like he's a complete idiot, and a perfect example of the bad judgment the Conservatives spew out of every orifice. The tapes are nothing but a bunch of, as you say 'lib-speak'. in other words, it's meaningless. Nothing but vague political jargon.

Secondly, Inky was dismissed by the Liberals and the Media because he IS a liar. If not, why does he keep on with the 'It was a private conversation' bit and not just 'expose' the person who supposedly courted him. As it obviously wasn't to low for Grewal, Why should it be to low for him? Doesn't look very good, does it?

As a side note, I love how Inky ran to the press, the Human resource commission and what have you screaming racism, yet here the Conservatives are drawing up posters of the "Liberinos". You've either got to be a hypocrite or just a socially insensitive idiot to think this is ok.

Did the Liberals court Grewal? The recording doesn't say, c’mon. Did Grewal intend to cross the floor?!? I don't know. Did the Liberals turn him away? Probably not, they would be stupid if they did.

Wouldn't Grewal have been able to see right off the bat maybe he wasn't the best choice to 'expose' the Liberals evil practice, especially Grewal himself being under investigation? I think it's naive to chalk this up to 'convenience' or Liberal manipulation. He got caught doing something he shouldn't have been and now he's trying to throw egg on the Liberals faces. It's called wagging the dog, I'm sure you've seen it before.

So why do the Conservatives still want Grewal? Whether or not he intended to cross the floor, he was still involved in some shady activity. So, his principals are a little less than ethical, which obviously does not fit within the Conservatives idea of good political practice, or does it? If Harper knew 3 days ahead of the big vote, why didn't HE call the RCMP? Isn’t it his duty? If this truly was a smoking gun, why didn't Harper jump at the chance?

K, it took them what, five days to translate 2 hours of Punjabi?!? Honestly, Cannadianna, do you really thinks that's plausible? really?? I'm sure you watch CPAC and I'm sure you've noticed how long it takes the translators to do their job. And to get it on paper? How fast can you type. It’s common sense.

Blue705, what are you talking about??! Belinda mentioned Peterson on May 18th, When she first crossed the floor. CBC Archives. Maybe you should check it out.

Sorry for the extra long comment.

BLUE705 said...

Yes--I checked it out like you said and you are absolutley right and I am wrong. It just goes to show what happens when you rely on memory. So as to 'what am I talking about". I can only say I made a mistake.
May I add that because the tapes are vague does not make them meaningless but rather more damaging? The language clearly shows those involved are intentionally being vague. Why would someone who had nothing to hide have spoken in such a ridiculous way like they do one the tape? The language of the tapes is of people attempting to thwart the law that have a clear knowledge of it. Tim Murphy is a lawyer by the way, not a lay person.
Grewal is not an idiot. Conservatives said they were being bribed and Liberals called them liars. Would the RCMP have agreed to investigate without the tapes? No, becasue there wasn't enough evidence. The RCMP could not tape for the same reason. Grewal was a whistle-blower by definition and I respect him for the thankless path he chose. He created the evidence needed the only way he could.
Secondly, Inky Mark isn't a liar because he won't say who approached him. Maybe Mark would reveal his source if he had a tape but since he doesn't he'll just be called a liar and sued so why would he?
As a side note--there is no "humna resource commission" and Mark didn't run to the Human Rights Commission and Vople did end up apologizing. The Conservatives didn't draw up the Liberanos poster--two members posed next to a newspaper that published it. The Liberanos poster IS insulting--to the mob.
It is going to be hard to prove Grewal accepted a bribe when he did not vote the way he was supposed to to get the inticement, and he came forward prior to the vote with the tapes. The inticement was offered and it doesn't have to be "specific" as the latest Liberal red herring suggests.
It's laughable you say Harper should have gone to the police, Harper was never involved. Why not the PMO's office? Because they were involved in trying to bribe a public official?
I hope you can understand this. Conservatives are fed up with the lies, the cheating, the bribery, the theft and everything else the Liberals are doing. Every act isn't seen as a route to power. Grewal just put a halt to illegal activities in the PMO's office because they will never be sure now if they are being taped. Good for Grewal, he made Ottawa a better place.

'Peg City Kid said...

Sorry blue705, didn't mean to offend.

Now that these tapes are suspected to have been altered (which honestly doesn't surprise me), I think the Conservatives have finally lost the ability to play the 'moral' card.

This is the thing, They (the Conservatives MP's) were not being bribed. They lied about it. This is not the first time the Conservatives have used this tactic.

Think of Grewal as you'd like, but had one of the Liberals been in the same situation you would be all over it, relentlessly I might add. The Conservatives once again show that they have to rely on shady tactics to get things done.

Entrapment is when a party is lured into committing a crime. If Grewals story rings true, then the Liberals had no need to be 'lured' into this crime. In which case he should have offered to work with the RCMP to expose the 'plot'. Not only that, but he should have handed the tapes over to the RCMP immediately had they been so incriminating, I'm sure they have translators who could have done the job.

But that's not what happened is it? O.K., I'd admit, that only two forensic experts said the tape was tampered with, and they were funded by the press, and the press is against the Conservatives right? Sure.

If Inky Mark didn't want to be branded a liar or sued, why did he bring it up at all?? If the accusations were valid, then he would have been in no danger of being sued. If they were illegitimate and baseless, then it would be defamation, and yes, one can be sued for that.

The fact that Inky mark brought it up and then won't talk about it makes him seem very unbelievable.

You don't think comparing the Liberals specifically to the "Italian" mob plays on a hurtful stereo type? hmmmm.

What do you mean Harper wasn't involved?? He knew about a so called illegal attempt to bride one of his MP's!!!! Where is his 'Moral Authority'?????? Laughable indeed.

Grewal a liar and finally showed the true colors of the Conservatives. He has taken the Conservatives, Canadian politics, and Canada down another notch.

BLUE705 said...

The Prime Minster is MY Prime Minister too. I have a right to find out what happened. The government in power is MY government.
I believe our Prime Minsiter was involved in a crime. You don't--fine, good for you. What about the millions of Canadians who think he was? We want answers and we don't want your list of immaterial bullshit like the PM did nothing wrong because it doesn't take 5 days to translate 4 hours of Punjabi. Do I care?
The Prime Minister's involvement is more serious than Grewal's. Grewal isn't the Prime Minister. Harper isn't the Prime Minister. Why on earth should I be worried about what the Leader of the Opposition knew for heaven's sake.
I have a right to answers about the way the Prime Minister's Office conducted itself and I'm going to get them. I'm sure this will end up with Murphy having "acted alone". This time, that is no excuse, just as the initial defense Martin made in the House (on record) that Grewal approached first is no excuse. It doesn't matter who approached first.
Since Grewal didn't vote the way they wanted he OBVIOUSLY is cleared of ACCEPTING a bribe. Period.
Since the PMO didn't hang up the phone or call the police, it seems they were invloved in BRIBERY of a Member of Parliament. Period.
I want some answers. Period.

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