It is reasonable to view the world from the *what would I do* perspective. We tend to project our own morality and sensibilities onto others. It's why people are so quick to say: *why would she lie about ...* *why would anyone choose ...* *an innocent person wouldn't...* *only a guilty man would...*
Why would Christine Blasey Ford lie? As I said previously, to be the heroine of a cause that means a lot to her, to her demographic, to her political allies, to her gender and her generation. She is in a win-win situation. She is either believed, and she is a victim to the people who matter to her and she thwarts the confirmation of a man who might change their world. Or, she is disbelieved, and she is a victim to the people who matter to her, the people who loathe the sort of people who might question her motives, her memory, her timing. She might come out of this a little bruised by the awkward attention, but because in these instances we can never know, she won't carry this as a blemish to the people who share her worldview -- and that's all that's important to most of us really.
She might well be telling the truth and I don't pretend to know. I just think it's silly for people to suggest that women never lie, or that the only possible reason for a lie would be attention-seeking or mental illness. People lie for all sorts of reasons, and I suspect that to many on the left, (and perhaps many on the right) abortion rights are right up there as a top priority, politically. People do strange things when they are advancing or protecting their cause.
As for Kavanagh, he has every reason to lie. He's followed the life plan for that sort of person he is -- got an education, worked hard, lived decently, and in one fell swoop all of that can be destroyed by something awful he did when he was seventeen? Who wouldn't be inclined to lie about something that no one can ever prove? Or, maybe he doesn't even remember. Not because he was blackout drunk, but because as the perpetrator of an assault, which, to a seventeen-year old in 1982 likely seemed innocuous and unimportant, it's something he would never have to, or bother to, think about again. Real sexual predators plan and recall details, but young men who are aggressive and clumsy are unlikely to feel the significance of their actions to the woman they've assaulted.
It's been suggested Kavanagh lashed out on the stand because he was angry having been caught or called out, but his demeanour, as unseemly as it might have been, is not indicative of guilt. If you've ever been unjustly accused of something terrible, something you know in your heart you didn't do, you'll know how indignant he must feel if his conscience is clear. Is it crazy that he would cry, or yell or would throw out the Clinton name and suggest a conspiracy? Because it would feel like that to someone raw from a vile and false accusation.
Some are saying that his reaction is so contrary to the comportment of a Justice, that he should be excluded from the bench as a result. Much as the testimony was not becoming of a supreme court justice, Kavanagh was on the stand as a man, not a judge. His emotive display doesn't suggest someone who would be unhinged when rendering a decision on a case before him. This was a person going through an intensely troubling ordeal. Guilty or not, the stress of being accused and then dragged through this after all these years must be tremendous. Who wouldn't come off a little intense and histrionic in those circumstances?
Anyone who could look at either of these two people, the things they've said and how they've carried themselves and draw a conclusion to a certainty, is a mind-reader. To my mind, there is just no way to know -- but whether it's true or not, I don't believe an unproven, uncorroborated incident from a person's youth should be the deciding factor in his fate, thirty-five years on. I can understand the injustice someone might feel if the person who hurt them is elevated to a position of honour and authority, but that's irrelevant here (although there are certainly times it shouldn't be). Ask Juanita Broaddrick.
In the end, I believe Kavanagh's only option is to withdraw. His family doesn't deserve to be put through this, and there is no salvaging his reputation now. No matter what the FBI finds, there will never be anything definitive and there will always be a cloud over him. Every judgement will be suspect, every decision over-scrutinized -- he is tainted. It makes no sense for him to continue in this climate, under these circumstances. There are times, even if you believe the other side is wrong, the gracious and decent thing to do is concede and step away. This is one of those times in life, the truth doesn't matter.
And then, what Donald Trump should do, is find the most rabidly pro-life, male judge in existence, and dare the Democrats to do this again.
canadianna
Why would Christine Blasey Ford lie? As I said previously, to be the heroine of a cause that means a lot to her, to her demographic, to her political allies, to her gender and her generation. She is in a win-win situation. She is either believed, and she is a victim to the people who matter to her and she thwarts the confirmation of a man who might change their world. Or, she is disbelieved, and she is a victim to the people who matter to her, the people who loathe the sort of people who might question her motives, her memory, her timing. She might come out of this a little bruised by the awkward attention, but because in these instances we can never know, she won't carry this as a blemish to the people who share her worldview -- and that's all that's important to most of us really.
She might well be telling the truth and I don't pretend to know. I just think it's silly for people to suggest that women never lie, or that the only possible reason for a lie would be attention-seeking or mental illness. People lie for all sorts of reasons, and I suspect that to many on the left, (and perhaps many on the right) abortion rights are right up there as a top priority, politically. People do strange things when they are advancing or protecting their cause.
As for Kavanagh, he has every reason to lie. He's followed the life plan for that sort of person he is -- got an education, worked hard, lived decently, and in one fell swoop all of that can be destroyed by something awful he did when he was seventeen? Who wouldn't be inclined to lie about something that no one can ever prove? Or, maybe he doesn't even remember. Not because he was blackout drunk, but because as the perpetrator of an assault, which, to a seventeen-year old in 1982 likely seemed innocuous and unimportant, it's something he would never have to, or bother to, think about again. Real sexual predators plan and recall details, but young men who are aggressive and clumsy are unlikely to feel the significance of their actions to the woman they've assaulted.
It's been suggested Kavanagh lashed out on the stand because he was angry having been caught or called out, but his demeanour, as unseemly as it might have been, is not indicative of guilt. If you've ever been unjustly accused of something terrible, something you know in your heart you didn't do, you'll know how indignant he must feel if his conscience is clear. Is it crazy that he would cry, or yell or would throw out the Clinton name and suggest a conspiracy? Because it would feel like that to someone raw from a vile and false accusation.
Some are saying that his reaction is so contrary to the comportment of a Justice, that he should be excluded from the bench as a result. Much as the testimony was not becoming of a supreme court justice, Kavanagh was on the stand as a man, not a judge. His emotive display doesn't suggest someone who would be unhinged when rendering a decision on a case before him. This was a person going through an intensely troubling ordeal. Guilty or not, the stress of being accused and then dragged through this after all these years must be tremendous. Who wouldn't come off a little intense and histrionic in those circumstances?
Anyone who could look at either of these two people, the things they've said and how they've carried themselves and draw a conclusion to a certainty, is a mind-reader. To my mind, there is just no way to know -- but whether it's true or not, I don't believe an unproven, uncorroborated incident from a person's youth should be the deciding factor in his fate, thirty-five years on. I can understand the injustice someone might feel if the person who hurt them is elevated to a position of honour and authority, but that's irrelevant here (although there are certainly times it shouldn't be). Ask Juanita Broaddrick.
In the end, I believe Kavanagh's only option is to withdraw. His family doesn't deserve to be put through this, and there is no salvaging his reputation now. No matter what the FBI finds, there will never be anything definitive and there will always be a cloud over him. Every judgement will be suspect, every decision over-scrutinized -- he is tainted. It makes no sense for him to continue in this climate, under these circumstances. There are times, even if you believe the other side is wrong, the gracious and decent thing to do is concede and step away. This is one of those times in life, the truth doesn't matter.
And then, what Donald Trump should do, is find the most rabidly pro-life, male judge in existence, and dare the Democrats to do this again.
canadianna
13 comments:
Canadianna - I disagree with you. Should Kavanagh withdraw, the side of the unverified accusation has won. No decent person on the 'right' side of the spectrum will ever allow him or herself to be nominated: they'd be nailed to the cross just as Justice Kavanagh has been. The left is pushing for the supremacy of the judiciary to ram through what ordinary Americans (and Canadians) didn't - and probably won't - vote for.
My take on this: something happened back in the day but - given the delay in Ms Ford's identification of Kavanaugh as the kid involved until several days of intense discussion with Democrat "helpers" - am inclined to consider his name as a false implant. Did read an interesting comment on a blog from a man who worked with people with PTST and his comments were twofold: 1) the original experience became more intense as it was relived; and, 2) the experience changed - in the person's memory - in material detail.
I'm not one to let serious sexual assault be excused. However, given the extreme fogginess of all other details - other than the two males supposedly involved, and given the absolute denial of all others who supposed were involved in this incident that it ever happened, I'm going with Judge Kavanaugh. (Actually, I read an interesting commentary - before it was taken down - to the effect that this party would have been held at the home of a classmate of Kavanaugh and that it could well have been the host of the party (his parents being absent at the time) who could have groped Ms Ford (he would have known into which room he wanted to steer her).
Very back in the day = and I was never one on the gossip circuit - the whole school knew when and where the serious "non-parental" parties took place. Fast forward a fair few years - probably the same gossip circuit took place. So I find it seriously difficult that there was no chatter after this particular event. That even the woman Ms Ford says was there is totally denying this is - to my mind - definitive.
When you think on this, think on how Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick were treated by the same lefties who are currently elevating Professor Ford to sainthood.
I don’t know who’s house it happened at or even what year or day or month it happened. I don’t know if I got there before everyone else or after. I don’t know how I got there or how I got home over 8 miles away
My life time friend doesn’t remember any of this and said she doesn’t even know who Brett Kavanaugh is ( and the other 3 people I said were there testified under oath they don’t know anything about this).
I have a fear of flying , but have no problem jet-setting all over the world while on vacation. I’ve been on airplanes more in the past two months than most people in a year, but my fear is completely legit.
I don’t know who paid for my hotel and polygraph test( the afternoon of my grandmothers funeral, or maybe it was the next day, who knows). And guess what? I flew there. Oh and that polygraph, it was only two questions, neither of which were about Kavanaugh. But hey, I passed so that’s all that matters. And my PhD in psychology definitely, in no way, helped me with it or my testimony today.
My friends on the beach encouraged me to continue contacting the media with my story (because we were running out of time). I can’t name them, so we’ll just call them beach friends. Yet while giving such great advice, none were willing to be character witnesses. Meanwhile, Judge Kavanaugh had hundreds of character witnesses step up in a matter of days.
My lawyers, out of the kindness of their hearts, are helping me for FREE yet I have a “needed” gofundme page that currently is sitting at $573,622. I’m so desperately in need of help there’s even a second gofundme with $209,987. I promise though I’m not getting anything out of my testimony, that money is just going to cover my expenses.
I’m super smart. I have a PhD and I teach graduate students. I know lots of big words, but it should be totally believable that I don’t understand basic questions.
I was the only person in the United States that didn’t know Congress agreed to come to me instead of me going to DC. They really do care about my flying phobia after all. She couldn't hear talking, but she heard talking Everyone who was supposedly in that house , although no one knows where the house is, has denied there was a house, has denied there was a party, has denied they were there, has denied knowing the existence of such a party, but she remembers allegedly being "groped" ,which was then increased to allegedly being "physically assaulted", which then progressed to being allegedly "sexually assaulted", which progressed to allegedly "attempted rape", which then progressed to allegedly being "accidentally murdered"...36 yrs ago, which she says effected her so severely , it was detrimental to her academic achievement , which is obvious by all the degrees she has successfully achieved in her academic career.. but she cannot remember when she took a polygraph test given a several day time frame or who paid for the test just a few weeks ago...a polygraph she said "was so stressful because it took such a very long time, she felt like she had told her life history “.Seriously...But the Democrats will destroy a person's career, family and life with not one shred of corroborated evidence, that is not justice...Due Process or The Rule of Law be damned.
There is nothing you say that I don't agree with Frances - absolutely nothing, and what a fantastic summary, Ontario Girl!
My point is, that reality and justice don't matter here... even if she were to retract the accusation, say, okay - I was mistaken, it happened, but it was someone else - the damage is done to Kavanagh's reputation. He's over. He will never be seen as in impartial jurist again. He was quite valid in his anger and I believe his rage was directed accurately, but this accusation has forever changed him. Unfair? Absolutely, but unlike with Clinton or Clarence Thomas, this is not going away. We're dealing with a different animal these days, perhaps because of social media, but it's different, and the ways to deal with it need to be different.
IMO Kavanagh is going to have to be sacrificed here for a greater good -- regardless of this mess, smart, qualified men on the right will always want to be Supremes, and all of them likely see themselves as blemish-free in terms of past behavior, just as Kavanagh obviously did. The only way to stop this train is to stand in front of it. Nominate a man with more extreme views on social issues than Kavanagh, and let the left have at him -- they can't keep doing this over and over again. Even this time, they started the bandwagon and are backing off somewhat because it's become so obvious. How many times can they attempt to thwart a male, right-leaning jurist with lurid accusations before it becomes a bitter joke? That's why it can't be a woman. It must be someone they would abhor, and can accuse.
If it was 2006, you're right, Frances... But in 2018, I don't see this ending well regardless of the outcome of an FBI probe.
This whole issue has set a dangerous precedent and I wonder how it will play out in generations to come, because much as today's adults are more woke than the ones from the 80s, teenagers seem just as likely to engage in casual sexual behaviours that could later be called into question. I would hate to be a young man in today's world.
Kavanaugh shouldn't quit. Everything has consequences.
If some think he can't be impartial, they were happy with the present group of Justices,except for Thomas who went through a similar trial. A new standard has been set for all holders or potential holders of public office. Let's see who lives up to it. As well, who will have the stomach to pay for it?
I hope Kavanaugh does not quit - but it is not up to me to say how much pressure one person should endure or the agony of his family in this media circus. Anyone who in now nominated for high position in the US public arena will be "hunted". The nominee will be examined and investigated up to the point of birth. Next up - your parents, your siblings, your family history and your friends. Welcome to 2018. Will the same rules apply the left - sadly not.
Well, I seem to be outnumbered here and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe I think the left has more influence than they actually do. Mostly with politics, it's Twitter that blows up, but I'm seeing my Facebook become political too, which I find a little troubling because I consider that more *personal* space since everyone on my feed is someone I actually know. The prevailing sentiment is not just anti-Kavanagh, but so anti man that I find it somewhat disconcerting. I think half of American and much of the world is seeing this man as a literal rapist and I think the lack of distinction and blithe way people are willing to sink someone's life is awful, and it's countered with *well look what he did* when there's just no way to know, you know? One friend actually wrote on FB - I cannot wait until the FBI is finished its investigation and Kavanagh gets the *firm* "NO" a man like him deserves - this time, he'll have to listen and I'm thinking -- why do you want an FBI investigation into something you've already decided is true?
I think the worst outcome is for the investigation to turn up nothing, and a *no* vote anyway. I think that's what I'm anticipating here. I sincerely hope you people are right.
I think he must stick it out and not be driven from the office because of an unproven allegation. I am with Sen Graham on this, it was just an appalling spectacle from a body that likes to bill itself as the world's most important legislative forum. He mentioned the low point in his 23 years of political life, but I think he was too lenient on his Senate colleagues. Listen to Sen Klobucher (D) pry away at his beer drinking experiences in college. To his credit Kavanaugh didn't answer but returned the question and she retorted she "Didn't have a drinking problem" "Neither do I", Kavanaugh replied. Is this what Advise and Consent has degenerated into?
If Kavanaugh does withdraw, I think he should launch a massive libel suit against Ford and her handlers. Let her repeat her allegations in a real court where the burden of proof is much higher and she will be subject to rigorous cross examination.
There is so much more information out there. The CBC tell 1/2 a story so viewers in Canada don't get the true story. Senator Graham just announced on Marie Bartalona's show Futures that he is going to get to the bottom of why Ford didn't know she had the option of being interviewed at her home in California (as she said in her testimony)and what staff member recemmended Cats , an activist lawyer , to be Fords lawyer. Who leaked Fords letter when she didn't want to go public. Who gave out his phone number and home address.He is going to get everything investigated. WOW....this isn't over folks.Also before Fords face book page got deleted Ford said she slept with 54 men before college and she was a drunk,,,her words. There is also a pic of her posing like a porn star on a school desk in a micro mini skirt and other pics of her ans friends gone wild at parties. She was an employee of feistein for yrs. She wrote the same letter against judge Gorsuch. She couldn't get anyone to accuse him of rape. She put an ad on facebook for women to come forward . Why do you think her facebook account was deleted and her year book was scrubbed.all lies and a set up from the rats.Also the FBI have widened the scope and interviewed the second woman last night about Kavanaugh exposing himself to her. First she said she was foggy and very drunk, but then after spending 6 days with a lawyer it came clearer who it was. Also the 3rd woman reported being sexually assaulted in the 2000 and it was false. Her X boyfriend had a restraining order against her for threatening his wife and child.The other allegation that Brett was on a boat with his friend Mark Judge with women and fighting was recanted by the man who sent the information to the Democrat Senator Whitehead.Now if anyone doesn't think this is a smear campaign against the man I don't know what else needs to be done to him. Kavanaugh also had 6 FBI background checks through the years and was clean. Ford had O background checks. No Judge will satisfy the democrats. They have turned the process into The National Enquire After the FBI do their investigation all this will come out and people hopefully will be eating their words.No way should the Judge not fight on for his reputation and let these disgusting allegations be allowed to win.Evil does not Trump good.
Martin, I think he should sue either way. Even if it doesn't prevent the confirmation, this has destroyed him in so many ways.
Ontario Girl... very interesting. I'm trying to keep up, but this case really has wheels.
Maybe justice will prevail.
Both you, Canadianna & commenters here, make valid points. I'll add my two cents' worth ...
1. I found Ms. Ford was treated too gently. Not that she needed to be attacked ... but the kid glove treatment was excessive, from both parties. Personally, I believe she had an agenda of her own. What it is I hope will eventually come out.
2. Judge Kavanaugh's testimony, though powerful & rightfully angry, went too far by giving personal details, like his assertion that he was not sexually active in high school or later (don't recall if the assertion was repeated during testimony or only on FOX interview). Also, every time the Democrats insisted he should ask the WH to have the FBI investigate, he should have strongly retorted the FBI had already investigated his background SIX times and found NOTHING untoward.
3. Finally ... if Judge Kavanaugh decides to withdraw, I hope Pres. Trump nominates a candidate who was on his 3-person short list (Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, Raymond Kethledge):
http://time.com/5329654/donald-trump-supreme-court-nominees/
"What to Know About the Potential Nominees President Trump Has Interviewed for the Supreme Court"
My choice? Amy Coney Barrett. I'd like to see if the Democrats would give a conservative woman the same unctuous treatment they gave Ms. Ford.
-- Gabby in QC
Read the background on the 3rd woman accuser of Judge Kavanaugh...this is who he is dealing with and wants to clear his good name from...Unbelievable.Her name is Julie Swetnick. Why should Kavanaugh quit over this garbage? It's an un-justice.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/09/28/kavanaugh-accuser-swetnick-sued/
You're right, Gabby. It would be interesting to see how they'd respond to a conservative woman. My hope for a man was only because if this was a tactic, they'd have to be crazy to try the same one twice in a row.
Ontario Girl - It's really appalling when you dig a little deeper. The sad thing is, Ford could be telling the truth (as she recalls it - with no ulterior motive) but these add-ons just make it seem sketchy.
It seems like the hope in all this, is that it will be easier for women to come out against men who behave badly, but in the end, it's becoming so hysterical it's making all of it seem suspect and that's incredibly unfair because a lot of men are smarmy creepy assholes and a lot of women have been on the receiving end of the assholery for a long, long time.
Swetnicks witness as reported by NBC is "DECEASED. Moving right along...here's the next accusation...the guy is a Professor at NY University apparently. The Judge should not step aside after this sketchy guy either. Comedy show...no police report can be found.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/10/02/kavanaugh-friend-cnn/
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