tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post112157274219499485..comments2023-12-19T23:03:42.004-05:00Comments on Canadianna's Place: Same-sex, the RC church, the UN and so on . . .Canadiannahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121789781390695582005-07-19T12:16:00.000-04:002005-07-19T12:16:00.000-04:00I plead guilty to "emotional." But I don't take it...I plead guilty to "emotional." But I don't take it as a criticism. :)<BR/><BR/>I'm pleased that we have concluded on a note of agreement.Dr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121788932541987452005-07-19T12:02:00.000-04:002005-07-19T12:02:00.000-04:00Superman -- my only concern now that it's law, is ...Superman -- my only concern now that it's law, is that religions and individuals who do not accept it <I>are</I> protected as promised.<BR/><BR/>Koby -- I'm not condemning anyone. We've had these discussions before. You still don't seem to be able to accept that not everyone is going to think or believe the same way you do. Perhaps yours is the true and enlightened way and I am wrong -- but Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121775003064960862005-07-19T08:10:00.000-04:002005-07-19T08:10:00.000-04:00"I didn't twist your words. You listed 'The Nation..."I didn't twist your words. You listed 'The National Post. The Conservative Party. A number of pig-ignorant people who beat up gays outside gay bars' in that order in the first paragraph. You made no distinction that any of the people/groups were worse or better than the others. Since you didn't indicate that you saw a distinction, I could only assume you didn't."<BR/><BR/>I repeat: you asked forDr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121762236113329682005-07-19T04:37:00.000-04:002005-07-19T04:37:00.000-04:00”Is rejection of a certain behaviour or actions 'h...”Is rejection of a certain behaviour or actions 'hatred'? I don't think so.”<BR/><BR/>You are not rejecting certain behaviors. You are condemning certain people for engaging in behaviors you have no qualm in allowing others to engage in. Anal Sex, oral sex, kissing, petting … refer to actions engaged in by people. <BR/><BR/>"Marriage is not like those things. It is a legal right, not a human Kobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03407275645274060038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121745138028952592005-07-18T23:52:00.000-04:002005-07-18T23:52:00.000-04:00dr dawg -- I didn't twist your words. You listed '...dr dawg -- I didn't twist your words. You listed <I>'The National Post. The Conservative Party. A number of pig-ignorant people who beat up gays outside gay bars'</I> in that order in the first paragraph. You made no distinction that any of the people/groups were worse or better than the others. Since you didn't indicate that you saw a distinction, I could only assume you didn't.<BR/>As for the Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121737570472947952005-07-18T21:46:00.000-04:002005-07-18T21:46:00.000-04:00So the Post, where the majority of the editorial b...So the Post, where the majority of the editorial board supports same-sex marriage--and the Conservative Party, which supports equal rights for gays and Civil Unions for gay couples---are now equivalent with "pig-ignorant people who beat up gays outside gay bars."<BR/>Oh. Okay. That's not over the top at all."<BR/><BR/>But that's not at all what I said. You asked for examples of oppression of gaysDr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121728135948817732005-07-18T19:08:00.000-04:002005-07-18T19:08:00.000-04:00The National Post. The Conservative Party of Canad...<I>The National Post. The Conservative Party of Canada. A number of pig-ignorant people who beat up gays outside gay bars.</I><BR/><BR/>So the Post, where the majority of the editorial board supports same-sex marriage -- and the Conservative Party, which supports equal rights for gays and Civil Unions for gay couples --- are now equivalent with "pig-ignorant people who beat up gays outside gay Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121725847426334192005-07-18T18:30:00.000-04:002005-07-18T18:30:00.000-04:00Let me begin by objecting to the notion that I am ...Let me begin by objecting to the notion that I am exhibiting "pious superiority." That honour, it seems to me belongs to some (but by no means all) of the churches.<BR/><BR/>"Which news organization, which political party -- who exactly oppresses gays in Canada?"<BR/><BR/>The National Post. The Conservative Party of Canada. A number of pig-ignorant people who beat up gays outside gay bars. The Dr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121709831167690582005-07-18T14:03:00.000-04:002005-07-18T14:03:00.000-04:00dr dawg -- I still disagree that gays are still an...dr dawg -- I still disagree that gays are still an oppressed segment of our society, but you have a right to your opinion.<BR/>You note a difference between 'oppression' and 'exploitation' and I'll grant you that. But oppression implies the state, or society at large is active in 'putting down' gays. I would argue that although gay-bashing does occur, it is not pervasive. Which news organization,Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121709528592465382005-07-18T13:58:00.000-04:002005-07-18T13:58:00.000-04:00Your posts have been mentioned at Opine Editorials...Your posts have been mentioned at <A HREF="http://opine-editorials.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Opine Editorials</A><BR/><BR/>Bill C-38 is the Canadian legislation introduced by the Liberal Party this summer and which will enact SSM in that country. As the bill hurriedly reaches the final stages of legislative approval, Canadian blogger <B>canadianna</B> has described her view of the sudden lackChairmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485251953071927097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121699617701753572005-07-18T11:13:00.000-04:002005-07-18T11:13:00.000-04:00A lot of the discussion here is, with respect, sam...A lot of the discussion here is, with respect, same-old, same-old. But one point requires some clarification: the meaning of the word "oppression."<BR/><BR/>The Left, in fact, makes a distinction between "oppression" and "exploitation." To exploit means to extract surplus value. Every worker who sells his or her labour-power to live is exploited. But the word has come to mean *unduly* exploited: Dr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121696180636408282005-07-18T10:16:00.000-04:002005-07-18T10:16:00.000-04:00Koby, first, I don't know or care whether you're g...Koby, first, I don't know or care whether you're gay. I've made no such assumption about you. I believe that some of the most articulate and ardent supporters of gay rights are not gay. When I said 'you' in relation to the Pride parade, I was using the universal you, because it always feels pretentious when I use the scholarly 'one'.<BR/><BR/><I> It is not sufficient to love all but to condemn Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121680991889488252005-07-18T06:03:00.000-04:002005-07-18T06:03:00.000-04:00It was a published article. It was not an off han...It was a published article. It was not an off hand comment by one of my profs. Anyway, I can not remember the reference for the life of me. All I can tell you was that it was Sociology of Education clas. <BR/><BR/>“Is it really that far fetched to think that young men, possibly without a positive male role model in their lives, might form strong bonds with other young men and assume from Kobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03407275645274060038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121649886130351262005-07-17T21:24:00.000-04:002005-07-17T21:24:00.000-04:00C...again,excellent postkoby...I have looked high ...C...again,excellent post<BR/><BR/>koby...I have looked high and low for your reference to the term faggot.Nowhere could I find any proven reference to the fact gays were used as kindling for burning witches etc.Yes,gay were burned at the stack for sodomy,but this practise ceased in the 17th century.<BR/>It has been frequently said that the pejorative use of the word derives from "faggot" in the Justthinkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16164790314651686280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121644640842599382005-07-17T19:57:00.000-04:002005-07-17T19:57:00.000-04:00Nadine & Koby -- maybe I am Toronto-centric, but w...Nadine & Koby -- maybe I am Toronto-centric, but with the media coverage and the tv programming that celebrates gayness -- it seems like all across the country gay people are living openly and comfortably. They're living, working, being elected, being promoted. I honestly can't imagine people making an issue of it -- but you're right. Toronto is big city, and I've never lived in a small town.<BR/Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121644197589446212005-07-17T19:49:00.000-04:002005-07-17T19:49:00.000-04:00Well, there are going to be an awful lot of I-told...Well, there are going to be an awful lot of I-told-you-sos coming from one side or the other on this issue.<BR/><BR/>Either society will collapse... or life will go on, much as it has this past age.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06378889161319818297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121638237393986752005-07-17T18:10:00.000-04:002005-07-17T18:10:00.000-04:00“Could you please reference that for me? When you ...“Could you please reference that for me? When you do, please don't give me a damn website.”<BR/><BR/>Nope. I came across it in a journal article, the title of which escapes me now. All I can tell you it was required reading for an Education class I took at UBC. <BR/><BR/>“Gays have never been an ‘oppressed’ minority.”<BR/><BR/>Me: Never! This is BS<BR/><BR/>You: “Ok, ummm, is it illegal now? Kobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03407275645274060038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121635426276589962005-07-17T17:23:00.000-04:002005-07-17T17:23:00.000-04:00C, you are truly on a roll. Another excellent pos...C, you are truly on a roll. Another excellent post - where do you find the time LOL?Candacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05903011672174393312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121631228361212072005-07-17T16:13:00.000-04:002005-07-17T16:13:00.000-04:00You're on a roll. I will be checking back later to...You're on a roll. <BR/>I will be checking back later to see NDP Nadine's response.youwishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16031232456700268303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121617903685231352005-07-17T12:31:00.000-04:002005-07-17T12:31:00.000-04:00A very lucid commentary on the real thrust of this...A very lucid commentary on the real thrust of this latest ( of many) deconstructionist agendas.W.L. Mackenzie Reduxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16025003842107040490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121611552588332632005-07-17T10:45:00.000-04:002005-07-17T10:45:00.000-04:00Koby -- the 'oppression' the left refers to, is th...Koby -- the 'oppression' the left refers to, is the segregation, aparteid, kind of 'oppression'. Minorities of all sorts have faced and continue to face <I>more</I> hostility than gays have historically in our society.<BR/><BR/>In the past <I>many</I> groups have been the targets of venom from society at large. Hitler's treatment of gays (from whence came the pink triangle) was an abberation in Canadiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07987833950676519609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121596364857403342005-07-17T06:32:00.000-04:002005-07-17T06:32:00.000-04:00Ok Koby, I'm a bit of a history buff. I'm particu...Ok Koby, I'm a bit of a history buff. I'm particularly interested in the middle ages and early Protestant Reformation. Now this is the first time I've ever heard that homosexuals were used to fuel the fire of witch burnings and thus originating the word faggot. I think that is mistaken. Could you please reference that for me? When you do, please don't give me a damn website. Tell me the titleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121590225920934582005-07-17T04:50:00.000-04:002005-07-17T04:50:00.000-04:00"Gays have never been an ‘oppressed’ minority. The..."Gays have never been an ‘oppressed’ minority. They have been a closeted minority, they have been scorned and despised – but oppression means subjugation – they don’t fit the definition of an ‘enslaved’ segment of society. Don't tell me they want to change that definition now."<BR/><BR/>Come again? <BR/><BR/>Homosexuality has been illegal in pretty much every society at some point, including Kobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03407275645274060038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121583504361897242005-07-17T02:58:00.000-04:002005-07-17T02:58:00.000-04:00Damn, girl, you've gotten real good!A whole army o...Damn, girl, you've gotten real good!<BR/>A whole army of cheers!bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15666007757313640686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12345049.post-1121577113113779042005-07-17T01:11:00.000-04:002005-07-17T01:11:00.000-04:00Thanks Canadianna for the excellent posting. Do y...Thanks Canadianna for the excellent posting. Do you mind if I print this off & share it, off line, with some other people? You have my word you will be fully attributed. ---- John GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com